God 'Vs' No God

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

© Mr. Robin Parsons :cool: Kingston Ontario Canada MMVI

( (I)'ve Moved this to Spare the Author of the Other Thread ...Hopefully....)

(SNIP) I don't need permission to set a record straight or defend my character that you continually assassinate with little regard for common decency or forum regulations to which you have agreed. (SNoP) Colouring your words Changes nothing of what you have stated, all of my {'quotations'} are as such, otherwise, (Rarely) 'Paraphrased' slighty to save space....Maintain associations...like this
....If you can show Clear Evidence of a Violation Please do.......Can you figure it out?


(SNIP)Apparently, revelation can be a double-edge sword. Be careful where you fall . . . (SNoP)
Yes, Getting Impaled upon the One sticking out of your back, that you have repetitively fallen upon, (and still do not know that) would probably hurt.

(SNIP)Your errors with regard to my quotes and others is often far more egregious; however, even with what you herein admit; it is false and deceptive; as, any change to quoted material, that is not identified, is entirely improper. Anyone can easily “click” on your name and peruse your postings where there is ample evidence. (SNoP)How is Coloring your text Changing it as to make a deciept/deception??

If the evidence is soooooo Ample then why? (OH why) great LINKER to everthing haven't you linked an ample amount, you know, twenty, or thirty??

(SNIP)How is this relevant? (SNoP) Cause it is Me expressing MY opinion
(SNIP) and, How do you know what I have done? (SNoP)Uhhhmmmmmm??? cause (I) have read your post(s) ....sound like a good manner for figuring out anothers character?? perhaps?? possible??? is it??? Can't Figure that out?
(SNIP) Your technique of false assumptions is near intolerable for civilized debate. (SNoP)
Yet Another Ad Hominum.... From YOU Too!

Given your Creed, you have no Given 'Moral Code', (Except maybe your own) ergo: you use only your own, ergo: your the 'perfect' man, cause you never make any mistakes and/or you always admit it, (error) if you do commit such .....such that, no one else can ever help you to see the/any error(s) that you might be making (Certainly No God!) and not recognizing (You know, willingly falling for your own self-deception{s} cause it makes you feel better....???).....or Admitting to, willingly, wittingly, un-willingly, unwittingly ....you are your own "Ultimate" Authority, NO Greater Truth Helping YOU

To Anthropic....

Makes you the "God", and Therefore a God-LESS man .....a Given.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

© Mr. Robin Parsons :cool: Kingston Ontario Canada MMVI

9:02 AM 7/8/2006

Lets Start with this, "Argueing on the Internet is Like Banging your head against Concrete, you will only hurt Yourself."

( (I)'m "Quoting" Myself)

According to your Creed ....well, no Anthropic Qualities Ascribable to "God"

In that, There Lays the Clearest Example of the Inability of A person to distinguish between: what Creation has Presented to Us, AND What Humanity Does to Creation....

The Blaspheme is of Human Hand, And "Creation" (That which was 'Created' as 'we' exist in 'it' ...now) Still "Supports and Upholds" the Greater 'Good' in the Efforts' of Life its'self to Continue, Proof?? = Food

In an Infinite Space ...well, it cannot Occlude itself (that is a HUGE hint) so it can be neither, the (Dreamt of) "Un-imaginable Vastness of space" nor, the "Unimaginably small 'Point' in Space" as both of those represent Occlusions....

The Infinite 'Suffuses' the Space we Occupy ...hence the Validity of 'it' being Sensate & both: of Us, and 'us' of It ...(?) ....well, sorta, depends upon how well, in your life, you have trained yourself, according/inaccordance to the Proper 'rules' (Learnings) as to follow the Path/time that Is there & Yours, just for you....Everyone can find this within themselves, but few can uphold/maintain it ....least 'it' Helps...

And Oh Yes! 'It' ...Does! Help!

How is it accomplished that the Infinite Space cannot Occlude itself? Well, Dr. Albert Einstein Told us All that this was "Simply an Illusion of (the) 'Light' (EMR actually) ...so, Yes, Thats' How it's Done, that is how the Infinite Space is Never Occluded.

If you don't believe that one, well go out and start an arguement on the Internet!

Same Difference, can you recognize what/how it/is 'presented' ...creation....to you ....well, and 'most' of the rest of 'us' too, just you know? ...the ones who won't admit "it hurts"....sometimes

('truth' ...me too ....sometimes)

'Good Hurt' though-sometimes ...too.

Is there a God? well, Felt like it, Feels like it ....Well, in my opinion ....Yup!

Moral Code too.

(heard tell that it was carried to "us All" through some 'one' of "Us all" ...neat-O!)

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

© Mr. Robin Parsons :cool: Kingston Ontario Canada MMVI


Is there a God? well, Felt like it, Feels like it ....Well, in my opinion ....Yup!
Normaly it's "Looks Like it, Smells like it, Tastes like it, so that must be it"

Just that in this case as 'Seeing-Smelling & Tasting' are, all three, inner functions, well, That too is 'proof' ....as you 'live and breathe' Proof

So, "Felt it, feel it, and Yup! because of it (I) can still see-smell-taste ....in the Instance/Moment of it....

You? :eek: Too?

[Kleophon]

Do you purposely have a conversation with yourself?

Given your Creed, you have no Given 'Moral Code'.

I'd like to respond for Epsilon=One. Have you not read his website? Learning as much as you can will give a person moral values. I admit that I think along the same lines as he does, so I may be biased, but its the only way to ensure the values come from reality, not from some religion that's already been created. Perhaps you need to be more perceptive when you read (and respond).

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

© Mr. Robin Parsons Kingston Ontario Canada MMVI

Do you purposely have a conversation with yourself? Uhmmmm, reading this, No ....Apparently not...funniest thing about me and what (I) can do, even if you see me walking down the street all alone talking, (I) am STILL not talking only to myself ....sorta.



I'd like to respond for Epsilon=One. Have you not read his website? Learning as much as you can will give a person moral values. I admit that I think along the same lines as he does, so I may be biased, but its the only way to ensure the values come from reality, not from some religion that's already been created. Perhaps you need to be more perceptive when you read (and respond).Personally (I) would prefer you NOT respond for anyone capable of responding for themselves.

Learning as much as you can may give you a sense of Moral Values, but the sense you have is yours alone, so breaking them only means whatever value only you give it, so it isn't any kind of Code that you must Improve yourself to follow, cause you can always simply accept whatever "Wrong" you may have done, falling forever into a Trap of Self Forgiveness that Holds NO validity in the 'Truth' of Reality ...that part ('Truth' ...of Reality) that lives inside of you, too.

A Religion that has already been created means you must learn to follow a Code that is not of your own making, thus assuring that you will have to face up to the 'Truth' of yourself (Inside/Inner & Outside/Outer) when you fail at it ...that part is guaraaaaaaanteeeeeeed!

Perhaps you need to read the "read count" before you introduce Strange Ideas (Me?? talking to myself??? How?? Only "Me" right? HOW??? God Knows....) into the heads of people who read me.

:cool:

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

© Mr. Robin Parsons :cool: Kingston Ontario Canada MMVI

Uhmmmm, reading this, No ....Apparently not...funniest thing about me and what (I) can do, even if you see me walking down the street all alone talking, (I) am STILL not talking only to myself ....sorta. Also, when 'walking down the street' (I) may appear as If (I) am just walking along but, within me there Might just be A very Important Process going on, and/plus sometimes that process is silence ....within me, too.

Takes a While to learn that (silence) in Life, and well, without a Good Teacher? YIKES! :eek:

[Kleophon]

A Religion that has already been created means you must learn to follow a Code that is not of your own making, thus assuring that you will have to face up to the 'Truth' of yourself (Inside/Inner & Outside/Outer) when you fail at it ...that part is guaraaaaaaanteeeeeeed!


And there lies the problem of religion. Why should I have to live by a Code not of my own making? I am a part of this world now, this generation, why then is a code of previous generations going to help me live my life to the fullest extent. I believe you are deceived by religion into thinking that adhering to another's Code is the best way to live one's life. Why is experience not the best way to live? A normal Christian way of life is very much centered around middle-class life. Therefore, impoverished persons have very little need for Christian values or beliefs. This is precisely why I accept no religion (including atheism).

[Epsilon=One]

I'd like to respond for Epsilon=One. …Learning as much as you can will give a person moral values. …its the only way to ensure the values come from reality, not from some religion that's already been created. Your insight and time spent reading some of my sites is quite flattering; and, makes me feel the effort is worthwhile. If only those whose minds have not been impressed would read a bit more with thoughtfulness and reflection.

You respond quite well; I appreciate your response; as Mr. Robin Parsons seems to pay attention to what you write while understanding very little of what I attempt to convey. I don’t look for agreement as much as I try to develop concepts, which is difficult with endless off-topic bickering.

And there lies the problem of religion. Why should I have to live by a Code not of my own making?You are quite correct. With almost every religion there is a man, between a person and that person’s god, who interprets what god “thinks and says.” This is intolerable. (If only because it is arrogant and blasphemous to believe that: that which creates galaxies and subatomic "particles" has anthropic qualities.)

A person should teach what is most factually known; and an individual must find his moral compass, on his own, from within his own wisdom. Anything less creates doubt about the source and amounts to some form of lost freedom . . . slavery.

Doubt decreases the capacity for happiness. Why is it that those who have everything needed for material happiness, and profess a belief in, most often, a Christian god, are so miserable . . . in person and action. Note the intolerance and violence of most Christian fundamentalists. (I pick on the Christians only because so many of them live in privileged circumstances; however, all religious fundamentalists seem to evidence little happiness.)

I am a part of this world now, this generation, why then is a code of previous generations going to help me live my life to the fullest extent. I believe you are deceived by religion into thinking that adhering to another's Code is the best way to live one's life. Why is experience not the best way to live? A normal Christian way of life is very much centered around middle-class life. Therefore, impoverished persons have very little need for Christian values or beliefs. This is precisely why I accept no religion (including atheism).I have reposted you words because everyone should consider your reasoning.

Morality cannot be required by "Code" any more than respect. Both must come, uncoerced, from within to be meaningful. God, for most followers, is a bit coercive, as I see it.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

(SNIP) Why should I have to live by a Code not of my own making? (SNoP)

© Mr. Robin Parsons :cool: Kingston Ontario Canada MMVI


Kleophon, if only you could read, or did actually bother to read what (I) had written as, clearly, you didn't.

The answer to your question is ALREADY written in that posting.

Then again it is clear enough that the only reason you are here is to defend your Self-decieved twit-twitting friend who hides behind his Ep-so-lieing-One (h)ave-tar ...so you, following him, should result in the same thing he is, same outcome, a lonely old man with no meaning in his life, who, still to this day, cannot see his own mistakes, and errors, even when helped by others to know them.

He wants to know what is wrong with his "Proof of God" firstly the title is wrong/erroneous, secondly (I) explained it to him, but whoooosh right past him (of his own accord) because he will not accept anyone elses' opinons as Valid unless they are already in agreement with his own, which due to the clarity (I) find of his own self deception, he finds few 'others' other then the errant to agree with him.

After that? ....bye. :cool:

[Kleophon]

Kleophon, if only you could read, or did actually bother to read what (I) had written as, clearly, you didn't.

The answer to your question is ALREADY written in that posting.


Hmmm... I always thought I knew how to read... If you're answer was so clearly hidden in your befuddled message, what are those exact words then? Perhaps you could respond to my previous post.


Then again it is clear enough that the only reason you are here is to defend your Self-decieved twit-twitting friend who hides behind his Ep-so-lieing-One (h)ave-tar ...so you, following him, should result in the same thing he is, same outcome, a lonely old man with no meaning in his life, who, still to this day, cannot see his own mistakes, and errors, even when helped by others to know them.

First of all, when did Epsilon=One become my friend? I appreciate his ideas, just as some of your ideas I appreciate as well. In this case, Epsilon=One's ideas were more suited to my beliefs. And, I assure you that I will not end up as a lonely old man with no meaning. I've found meaning in my life already and a purpose. Perhaps you could respond to my previous post about the fact that I live in my generation, not in older generations, so I make a code for myself.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

© Mr. Robin Parsons :cool: Kingston Ontario Canada MMVI

Hmmm... I always thought I knew how to read... If you're answer was so clearly hidden in your befuddled message, what are those exact words then? Perhaps you could respond to my previous post.
First of all, when did Epsilon=One become my friend? I appreciate his ideas, just as some of your ideas I appreciate as well. In this case, Epsilon=One's ideas were more suited to my beliefs. And, I assure you that I will not end up as a lonely old man with no meaning. I've found meaning in my life already and a purpose. Perhaps you could respond to my previous post about the fact that I live in my generation, not in older generations, so I make a code for myself.

this was my posting..
Learning as much as you can may give you a sense of Moral Values, but the sense you have is yours alone, so breaking them only means whatever value only you give it, so it isn't any kind of Code that you must Improve yourself to follow, cause you can always simply accept whatever "Wrong" you may have done, falling forever into a Trap of Self Forgiveness that Holds NO validity in the 'Truth' of Reality ...that part ('Truth' ...of Reality) that lives inside of you, too.

And perhaps ..in time... as you age... you will learn just how much that 'meaning' that you 'think' you have now, is actually worth....

Especialy following that pathway ...just keep going, cause you will keep failing, and how you deal with that well ...Means... Something...?

[Kleophon]

And perhaps ..in time... as you age... you will learn just how much that 'meaning' that you 'think' you have now, is actually worth....

Especialy following that pathway ...just keep going, cause you will keep failing, and how you deal with that well ...Means... Something...?

I apologize for missing your post. I do understand what you were trying to say now. I think that the meaning I've drawn is worth enough to live my life by, so I have made peace with myself and stopped questioning my beliefs. I don't understand why you tell me that I will keep failing, I know I will have my fair share of failings, but I anticipate my life being full of successes. Maybe that's just me...

[Epsilon=One]

...I don't understand why you tell me that I will keep failing, I know I will have my fair share of failings, but I anticipate my life being full of successes. Maybe that's just me...I agree.

To my way of thinking, optimism regarding "successes" is much better than the pessimism of expected, continued "failing." I would suspect that pessimism brings much of what is considered.

If nothing else, optimism, brings some pleasure before the outcome is determined. It is wisdom acquired from experience that tempers optimism with judicious caution.

A pessimist will suffer regardless of the outcome.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

© Mr. Robin Parsons :cool: Kingston Ontario Canada MMVI

I apologize for missing your post. I do understand what you were trying to say now. I think that the meaning I've drawn is worth enough to live my life by, so I have made peace with myself and stopped questioning my beliefs. I don't understand why you tell me that I will keep failing, I know I will have my fair share of failings, but I anticipate my life being full of successes. Maybe that's just me...(I)'ll quote you, "I apologize" cause (I) should have made the balance more obvious, you will succeed in life, but you will fail too, some people will tell you that you will learn more from the failures, then the successes...

Therein lies the problem though, in your head alone well, you have succeeded, but in the truth of reality you may have failed ....greatly, just that you won't realize it cause your Moral code has no 'Observer enforce-ability' other then you...and thereby, that self-deception/acceptance/rationalization/error/justification you have missed one of the most important lessons meant for your life?

How could (I) if as a Friend of yours, Help you to follow your own code when it isn't written down for me to know it, when it is subject to change at your convienence, or my in-convienence.....

Even in Democratic Law there is a 'Principal' (rule/sorta) that tells legislators (people who write laws) that they are Not allowed to write/craft laws that place to onerous/difficult a Burden upon those subjected to that Law...

So who else But God would write a Moral Code Knowing beforehand that none of us (except God) could follow it ...perfectly.

BTW you can do whatever you want to, that way, YOU are the one (held) responsible for it!

[Kleophon]

Therein lies the problem though, in your head alone well, you have succeeded, but in the truth of reality you may have failed ....greatly, just that you won't realize it cause your Moral code has no 'Observer enforce-ability' other then you...and thereby, that self-deception/acceptance/rationalization/error/justification you have missed one of the most important lessons meant for your life?

You're right, I'll never realize that I failed or succeeded because I do not have an Observer. But, in actuality, my observer is humanity. If I succeed, then humanity will remember me forever and if I fail, then I will be forgotten. That is the measure of my success, nothing more.

How could (I) if as a Friend of yours, Help you to follow your own code when it isn't written down for me to know it, when it is subject to change at your convienence, or my in-convienence.....

Why is it important for other people to know my moral code? If I were a philosopher, then I'd write it down, but I'm not (at least yet...), so therefore I simply live my life by it. I aim to, when I've succeeded as much as I possibly can, write down my philosophy of life and hope that others can glean some knowledge from it and use it to live their lives in the best possible way. But, as of now, I do not need a friend to help me follow my own code, because then it wouldn't be mine.

Even in Democratic Law there is a 'Principal' (rule/sorta) that tells legislators (people who write laws) that they are Not allowed to write/craft laws that place to onerous/difficult a Burden upon those subjected to that Law...

Ah, but here you are talking about a legal system of government, not religion, not moral codes to which we live every minute of our lives by. Of course there has to be laws/principles set aside long before these people enter office. Otherwise, the lives of the citizens will be most jeapordized for rights and the right to life most importantly.

So who else But God would write a Moral Code Knowing beforehand that none of us (except God) could follow it ...perfectly.


Each and every one of us write our own moral code (even if we say we're Christians) and we do follow that code.

BTW you can do whatever you want to, that way, YOU are the one (held) responsible for it!

Exactly. My actions are what makes my person, the character of my being. If I choose to murder, then I will be responsible for taking the lives of others, thereby causing myself great shame. However, if I rise to greatness for helping the future of humanity, then I will be held responsible for making this world a much better place.

In short, I create my moral codes because I experience different things than the writers of the Bible did. I do not live in that time period, I live now. Certain issues need to be addressed in my time: the environment and children. These are the two things that I devote my life to and by doing so I will create a lasting legacy for myself. I do not need a religion to do this and I never will.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

© Mr. Robin Parsons :cool: Kingston Ontario Canada MMVI

You're right, I'll never realize that I failed or succeeded because I do not have an Observer. But, in actuality, my observer is humanity. If I succeed, then humanity will remember me forever and if I fail, then I will be forgotten. That is the measure of my success, nothing more. 'Humanity' is NOT 'keeping track of you', as it is for most people, the ones who 'keep track of them' are their friends.

Why is it important for other people to know my moral code? If I were a philosopher, then I'd write it down, but I'm not (at least yet...), so therefore I simply live my life by it. I aim to, when I've succeeded as much as I possibly can, write down my philosophy of life and hope that others can glean some knowledge from it and use it to live their lives in the best possible way. But, as of now, I do not need a friend to help me follow my own code, because then it wouldn't be mine. See above responce. Not writing it down renders it as truly meaningless, "Invented/Re-Invented" as you go along....

Ah, but here you are talking about a legal system of government, not religion, not moral codes to which we live every minute of our lives by. Of course there has to be laws/principles set aside long before these people enter office. Otherwise, the lives of the citizens will be most jeapordized for rights and the right to life most importantly.Uhmmm (I) was Comparing the two, Government and God and the Laws and the manner of the laws that either one ascribes.

Each and every one of us write our own moral code (even if we say we're Christians) and we do follow that code. A Christian who follows the Christian Moral Code may very well have it written inside them, But they DID not WRITE it.

Exactly. My actions are what makes my person, the character of my being. If I choose to murder, then I will be responsible for taking the lives of others, thereby causing myself great shame. However, if I rise to greatness for helping the future of humanity, then I will be held responsible for making this world a much better place.
In short, I create my moral codes because I experience different things than the writers of the Bible did. I do not live in that time period, I live now. Certain issues need to be addressed in my time: the environment and children. These are the two things that I devote my life to and by doing so I will create a lasting legacy for myself. I do not need a religion to do this and I never will.If you choose to Murder, well responsibility will only be seen/knownof if you either; turn yourself in Immediatley or, you get Caught ....finally.

They have a Funny saying Here in Kingston, "Everything is Legal if you don't get caught" (sorta along the Lines you are permitting yourself) which to me is funny Because (I) tend to think of it More like "Everything is Legal then you Won't (will NOT) be caught" because there is Nothing to Be Caught "at"

In their case, their; "Chillin like a Villian" In my Case it's "Chillin like the Free Willin"

Whom do you figure gets more out of life? (Validity & Freedom)

P.S.ssssst say 'Hi' to POOPERS for me, will ya....

:cool:

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

© Mr. Robin Parsons :cool: Kingston Ontario Canada MMVI

As for being able to feel it, well, if you have had an 'even state of being & in a peaceful state, been approached by someone and immediately been yelled/screamed at you feel the energy that the other one is putting out, you feel that with your heart, sometimes it scares you, sometimes not, but that is wherein the Feeling has origin, amongst all of what you feel there is a stillness of energy that is what empowers what you are comprised of, body - mind & Heart as physical, Intellect (with/without-knowledge) *Energy* as yet scientifically unproven/provable other then to notice phenomenon's such as the placebo effect and the Ability to Lie.

Most of what most people feel in their hearts has a sense of Brutishness/Abruptness about it ...at times-at times it is the sweetest/deepest/mostprofound of sensations as to be savoured, the ranging of it, yet the dilema that many founder upon is the reality of the need to follow the truth with your mind (First) as to assist your heart to go the 'good way' forwardly loving as that takes a kind of bravery of heart, to expose yourself to potential abuse simply for your willingness to try to be ...Kind... to another that sometimes Simply doesn't happen, those times are regularily Nicer ergo; your building towards 'Better' in yourself, by helping 'others' ...just you need to be wise enough about the truth as to let it (God) help you to not be fooled, especially by you/yourself/insideyou


Beware your treacheous Heart that it would decieve you, lead you down a Pathway of False (Selfdecieved/selfbelieved) love cause it can still feel like it's 'love'


That's probably why the Sages of the Ages have seemingly always instructed the (Shhh!) Quieting of the Mind, so you can become more peaceful in your own heart, helps you to follow the ...well, God Serving You way.

Helps you to know what the truth is ...for you.

Me?? Speak the "Truth"? well partiallity of truth is well, so far?? = Human....?!? (yes/No/??)

Does that help?


This person "Kleophonic", tells "never need a religion" wonder how much time he could claim as 'At the practise of one' as to be able to state his Opinion with ...what? (oh ..yes..) Balanced Validly ....! POOPERS Pal!

[Epsilon=One]

So who else But God would write a Moral Code Knowing beforehand that none of us (except God) could follow it ...perfectly.How do you define "God" that it is possible for a god to "write" anything . . . let alone a "Moral Code"?

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

© Mr. Robin Parsons Kingston Ontario Canada MMVI

How do you define "God" that it is possible for a god to "write" anything . . . let alone a "Moral Code"?
Poo Pees Have you forgotten already?? Again??

That, which is...

Do you know anything about your spiritual nature? or as you(?) would prefer to call it(?) your metaphysical nature, wait NO Don't answer that cause this too is what you do, you relinquish your assault long enough to regain some semblence of 'Decorum' to your typing, then shortly thereafter BANG!! ASSAULT!! Viscious verbal Vitriol whipped out and aimed as Ur-acid upon whomever (usually me as (I) seem to be the only one willing to bother to take the time with you ...here) it is that you have run out of slippage room with, (evasiveness) in your laying of the "Ill (sic) log-ejec"-tions that cover the pages on a One to one hundred word ...post/posting ratio.

Enough Pooing, and Peeing O.K. POOs&PEE's!

:cool:

[Kleophon]

This person "Kleophonic", tells "never need a religion" wonder how much time he could claim as 'At the practise of one' as to be able to state his Opinion with ...what?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this statement, but if it is what I take it to be, then I'll respond to it. I apologize if I misinterpreted your statement. I claim to state my opinion based not necessarily on a scholarly study of philosophy, picking a choosing bits and pieces from many different ways of thinking. I do not pretend to be a philosopher. Yes, I have read into many forms of philosophy, I pay particular attention to the philosophy of religions around the world. But, I claim to state my philosophy by matters of experience. If there is something more powerful, more useful to create a philosophy from, please tell me, but experiences are the number one guiding factor in a person's life, whether they have an accepted religion or not. So, why not gain a philosophy from your experiences? It only makes perfect common sense.

Also, my identity name is actually "Kleophon", I don't remember adding an "ic" to the end... perhaps I got lost somewhere...

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

© Mr. Robin Parsons :cool: Kingston Ontario Canada MMVI

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this statement, but if it is what I take it to be, then I'll respond to it. I apologize if I misinterpreted your statement. I claim to state my opinion based not necessarily on a scholarly study of philosophy, picking a choosing bits and pieces from many different ways of thinking. I do not pretend to be a philosopher. Yes, I have read into many forms of philosophy, I pay particular attention to the philosophy of religions around the world. But, I claim to state my philosophy by matters of experience. If there is something more powerful, more useful to create a philosophy from, please tell me, but experiences are the number one guiding factor in a person's life, whether they have an accepted religion or not. So, why not gain a philosophy from your experiences? It only makes perfect common sense.
Also, my identity name is actually "Kleophon", I don't remember adding an "ic" to the end... perhaps I got lost somewhere...It is called an avatar and it is something meant to represent (Hide) your true identity...

Usually when it gets to the point that (I) have started making fun of others avatars, it is because they have successfully driven me to the point of No longer respecting, or having any respect left for, ....them.

If experience is where you would look for your philosophy, perhaps the Experience of selfless giving that can be learned by joining (Participating in) a religious organization would enrich your experience, as then you would have greater knowledge of just what it is that you are choosing from.

Churchs' in history are a Bit like the 'traffic reports', only the accidents get reported, the Assylum that 'Churchs' have offered, over time, the feeding of the needy, homeless (Like me) poeple, the care and attention and sometimes simply Good Advice that can come from such an Organized effort far outweight what are the traffic 'accidents' of Historical Religious oganizations.

Just because some long ago King decided to 'in the Name of God' go out an murder(?) doesn't mean that Organized religions >> presently << are bad/evil ...they aren't, nor would they have survived the tests of time.

Do whatever you want.

P.S. unlike you (I) have choosen to go under my real name such that there is no hiding for me from what damage other "Avatared" people (Like Poos&Pees=Epsilon=One=???Who??) will attempt to inflict given their belief that they will not be held accountable or responsible.....

Silly them.... :eek:

[Kleophon]

Usually when it gets to the point that (I) have started making fun of others avatars, it is because they have successfully driven me to the point of No longer respecting, or having any respect left for, ....them.


Hmmm... glad to know that.

the Experience of selfless giving that can be learned by joining (Participating in) a religious organization

Since when has participating in a religious organization been "selfless giving"? Selfless giving is giving that requires no goal, am I correct? I.e. giving to a cause that will not pay you back. Isn't it the goal of a Christian to go to Heaven? Isn't is the goal of a Buddhist to achieve nirvana? Isn't it the goal of a Muslim to follow Allah? The religious person in these situations must give to his/her cause, but there is a definite goal in mind. Religion is not selfless giving.

Just because some long ago King decided to 'in the Name of God' go out an murder(?) doesn't mean that Organized religions >> presently << are bad/evil ...they aren't, nor would they have survived the tests of time.

"Some long ago King"? Try today. Bush does much for "God", terrorists do what they do for Allah, this list goes on and on. And yet these all are for different purposes. Yes, many things that people claim "in the name of God" are good things, I will not refute that point, but there are too many things that are done "in the name of God" that are terrible, evil acts worthy of no respect. This sole fact shows that there is no true black and white in the reality of religion. I have very little respect for any religion who acts in this fashion (which includes every religion).

Do whatever you want.

I will and I think everybody should, they shouldn't be forced into any religion by their parents. That is another problem with religion: very few people are allowed to make a choice, I luckily was not indoctrinated by my parents and was given the chance to decide for myself. I assure you that every single person I know that has been given this chance has opted to not believe in a religion. There is no logical reason for religion today, but there is a real reason for it: indoctrination.

P.S. unlike you (I) have choosen to go under my real name such that there is no hiding for me from what damage other "Avatared" people (Like Poos&Pees=Epsilon=One=???Who??) will attempt to inflict given their belief that they will not be held accountable or responsible.....

Well, first I think it is ridiculous to give away one's identity on the internet so freely. There are plenty of reasons why I do not give my identity. Also, my avatar as its called does not hide my actions, but does represent my beliefs. Kleophon was a very influential democratic citizen who acted upon his beliefs, and that's what I aim to do with my life.

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

© Mr. Robin Parsons :cool: Kingston Ontario Canada MMVI

Since when has participating in a religious organization been "selfless giving"? Selfless giving is giving that requires no goal, am I correct? I.e. giving to a cause that will not pay you back. Isn't it the goal of a Christian to go to Heaven? Isn't is the goal of a Buddhist to achieve nirvana? Isn't it the goal of a Muslim to follow Allah? The religious person in these situations must give to his/her cause, but there is a definite goal in mind. Religion is not selfless giving.Selfless is in the simplest of senses inasmuch as it is one of the items/Acts that are "stored up in heaven" with God....self-less as the person receiving it has NO obligation of return.

Most people, (I) have found, are not that good at just "giving it away" they tend to want something in return, (Right! away! too) people who do Just 'give it away' (as to have the 'act' "stored in heaven") do so as an Act of Faith....

"Some long ago King"? Try today. Bush does much for "God", terrorists do what they do for Allah, this list goes on and on. And yet these all are for different purposes. Yes, many things that people claim "in the name of God" are good things, I will not refute that point, but there are too many things that are done "in the name of God" that are terrible, evil acts worthy of no respect. This sole fact shows that there is no true black and white in the reality of religion. I have very little respect for any religion who acts in this fashion (which includes every religion). If Geeeorge (AKA Geo-Ogre, and/or "Hoody Doody") is acting as/like some kind of "King" it is NOT for Gods' sake, (or religion) it is for OILS Sake!

Even in Islam the 'Infidel' is the one who murders the innocent...

Just because anyone/someone uses a Scriptural work to try to support/justify their position, From Any religion, doesn't mean that ANY of those religions (or especially God) actually supports what they are doing.....


I will and I think everybody should, they shouldn't be forced into any religion by their parents. That is another problem with religion: very few people are allowed to make a choice, I luckily was not indoctrinated by my parents and was given the chance to decide for myself. I assure you that every single person I know that has been given this chance has opted to not believe in a religion. There is no logical reason for religion today, but there is a real reason for it: indoctrination.You mean bringing you into a 'teaching system that requires you to develop self discipline'...

How is that 'Bad'?

Aside from which it is meant to be a Free Willed Choise you make for yourself, but how will you do that if you have never been exposed to the complete knowledge of it?

Well, first I think it is ridiculous to give away one's identity on the internet so freely. There are plenty of reasons why I do not give my identity. Also, my avatar as its called does not hide my actions, but does represent my beliefs. Kleophon was a very influential democratic citizen who acted upon his beliefs, and that's what I aim to do with my life.And (I) think it is Both "Ridiculous" and "Speciously SILLY" to think that because your using an Avatar that somehow you cannot be tracked, or aren't known...cannot be found...

But your avatar does hide your identity ...from me ....and falsely grants you belief that you are not accountable for it ....and the words it represents/presents of/from you! ....herein

BTW, Thank you for the previous apology, it enormously assists in determining your 'sense of self'

.....with that, me too "sorry" :o ...a little ....in case (I) have come across just a little to
strong

.....it's just that that POOPERS/POOS&PEES guy can be somewhat frustrating in his/her/its' plain and obvious well, stupidity ....and out of the mouth of a 'Learned person' too, Yoiks! :eek:

[chrisforbes]

I don't think there is no right or wrong, apart from fundamentalism. If people believe in absolutes then there is no margin for understanding the other person and excuse my language but if that happens we are all f~cked. Personally I have more faith in humanity. So here we are there is a lot of things wrong with the world, but before us there was a lot more things wrong, we are evolving and we are getting better as human beings. Whether we can be better before we blow each other up is a challenge. You can talk about the elite those that control the game but at the end of the day anyone can make a mark. I would rather the good guys make a mark than the bad guys. But that will be the test of time, I have my morals I have my views, if someone is so selfish that they would ruin it for everyone then they are just cheating themselves beacuase at the end of the day they may have won, but was the world they won worth living in.

[Munigas]

Basic Information
God Vs. Atheism, religion vs Antireligion. I can’t say against science, because plenty of people believe in both, and if you do, please feel free to post here.

The Argument of Religion:
First of all, do you really believe that the universe appeared out of no-whereThe Big Bang?

If a brand new model of a computer popped up out of no-where in front of you, would you ever think that it actually happened, or would you think you are hallucinating?
Would you think that somehow all those computer chips and materials came together to form a brand-new computer, or would you think someone created it?. The creator is God.

Use your common sense; if something BLEW UP BY ITSELF, would there be chaos, or neatness?


The Argument of Antireligion:
Really, the core of this argument is that religion has very little proof that all the claims it makes are true. There is a large amount of proof against religion being completely true though:
The Geologic Time Scale
Evolution
Darwinism
Big Bang Theory
As well as many inaccuracies in the Holy Texts.

Please. If you want to participate in this debate, read the evidence from both sides of view before posting. You don’t want to make yourself appear dumb.

If you feel like there should be something added to this post, PM me.

[lenchnikin]

doh Was pretty funny but I did fix it

btw...Ive posted this at several sites now and its really interesting to read the responses of those that dare.

One guy, a definite "bible thumper" told me to prove god said anything about abortion in the bible.

I thanked him for pointing that out... as well as the person who posted that in the bible "life" didnt start till we left the womb...