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socratus
11-26-2007, 05:35 PM
SRT and mathematicians.
==================
Mathematics is not written for mathematicians.
Mathematics is written for physics, for Nature.
This simple fact is forgotten in the science now.
1.
After war, in Russia there were many thieves' gangs
And I, as a boy, rotated among one of them.
They had their own language, thieves' jargon.
Not anyone could understand them.
Now I read some mathematical articles and they
remind me forgotten thieves' slang.
Are you laughing? Is it ridiculous ?
For me it isn't ridiculous .
Why?
Because , mathematicians stole the picture
of reality from us . Because they make us
poor and stupid.
Why do you say so?
OK. I will try to prove it and explain my point of view.
=========..
2.
It began in 1905 when Einstein created SRT,
( theory of photon/ electron's behaviour ).
Minkowski, trying to understand SRT, used 4D space.
Poor young Einstein , reading Minkowski interpretation,
said, that now he couldn't understand his own theory.
" You are right, it is difficult to understand SRT, using 4D space.
But using my 5D space it is possible" - said Kaluza in 1921.
This theory was checked up and recognized insufficient.
" Well, - said another mathematicians, - maybe 6D, 7D, 8D, 9D
spaces will explain it". And they had done it.
But the doubts still stay.
"OK,- they say, - we have only one way to solve this problem,
we must create more complex D spaces " .
And they do it, they use all their power, all their
super intellectuals to solve this problem.
Glory to these mathematicians !!!!
But……….
But there is one nuance. To create new D space, mathematicians
must take a new parameter. It is impossible to
create new D space without a new parameter.
And the mathematicians take this parameter arbitrarily
( it fixed according to his opinion not objective rules ).
The physicist R. Lipin explained this situation in such way :
" Give me three parameters and I can fit an elephant. With four
I can make him wiggle his trunk…"
To this Lipin's opinion it is possible to add :
" with one more parameter the elephant will fly. "
The mathematicians sell and we buy these theories.
Where are our brains?
Please, remember, many D spaces were born as a whish
to understand SRT ( theory of photon/ electron's behaviour ).
But if someone wants to understand, for example,
a bird ( photon / electron) itself and for this he
studies only surroundings will he reach success ?

If I am a king , I will publish a law:
every mathematician who takes part in the creation
of 4D space and higher - to award with a medal
" To the winner of a common sense ".
Why?
Because they have won us, using absurd ideas
of Minkowski and Kaluza.
=======..
P.S.
I asked some mathematician :
There are many different D spaces in the math/ physicist's works.
Are there limits of these D spaces?
Maybe is 123 D space the last and final space ?

He answered:
I think there are as many opinions on this as there
are people giving thought to the issue.

My own opinion is that since the more immediately
obvious 123D option (either parabolic, flat or hyperbolic)
did not allow, despite all efforts, reconciling the various
theories, then there is need to try something else.

Maybe has this time
"then there is need to try something else" come ?

3.
And what is mathematical opinion about photon itself ?
Here is one example how mathematician tries
to solve the problem.
Russian scientist professor V.P. Seleznev created "toro model "
of light quanta. According to this model the light quanta is a
constant volume ring ( like bublik) . The speed of it
is different and this fact gives possibility to understand
all light natural phenomenones, overcome through all
contradictions in the physics and to offer a new technology.
So it is written in the book.
/ Book "The secrets of Universe" 1998.
V.D. Demin. Page 377./
Short explanation is given on 4 pages.
Glory to this scientist .!!!!
Glory to this professor !!!!
But….
But I have only one question .
Can this "toro volume ring model "
( like bublik) have volume in Vacuum ?
The answer is " NO "
According to J. Charles law ( 1787),
when the temperature falls down on 1 degree
the volume decreases on 1/273. And when the
temperature reaches -273 degrees the volume
disappears and particles become "flat figures ".
The " Charles law" was confirmed by other physicists:
Gay-Lussac, Planck, Nernst, Einstein .
So, according to Charles law
the "toro volume ring model " is only
mathematic illusion .

There are many different models of photon.
To choose the correct one we needs to ask
a question: " Which geometrical form can
photon have in vacuum ? "
4.
Some scientists say:
" The darkest subject in the science is light quanta."
Maybe now some my readers will understand
better the way on which we must go.
5.
Now mathematics goes ahead science and physics follows it.
Mathematicians carry the posters " Forward to abstract",
" Forward to absurd" and we all follow them.
We go bravely on dinosaur's path.
======================
SRT doesn't have a gravity field.
If there is no gravity field , the space will be flat,
and this space is called " Minkowski space "
(negative 4-D united space/time continuum).
======.
Is the " Minkowski space "abstract continuum, as everybody says?
I think this space is a real one.
I think this space is Vacuum.
Why?
1. " Minkowski space "has no gravity field, but negative parameter.
2. Only Vacuum space has negative parameter : T= - 273.
3. And this negative parameter is united with space/ time ,
which are joined together absolutely .
4. And the second SRT postulate tells about moving
light quanta in Vacuum.
5. It is impossible SRT to be the right theory
and space around SRT to be an abstract theory.
6. If in our brain abstract and real ideas are mixed together
then the interpretation of physics must be paradoxical.
=======.
And in 1915 Einstein put a " MASS " in the
" Minkowski space " and it curved. Why?
And in 1921 A. Freedman put " TIME" in the
" Minkowski space " and it also curved. Why?
==========
If mathematician makes a small mistake in the
beginning of his calculations then after some
operations it grows into a big one.
And if in the beginning of sciences birth (Newton )
the abstract ideas were put into its fundament ,
then now we are surprised with its paradoxes………
……and we can create new and new theories for 1000 years
but the result will be the same - paradoxical.
============ ========= ======..

Epsilon=One
11-26-2007, 06:12 PM
SRT and mathematicians.
==================
Mathematics is not written for mathematicians.
Mathematics is written for physics, for Nature.
This simple fact is forgotten in the science now.For once, we are in complete agreement.

The origin of mathematics is Nature.

Such is the first postulate of mathematics. Said postulate is derived from an understanding of the first postulate of physics:

All that exists is quantized.

It is in defining said quantum that all rational understanding of existence must begin.

socratus
11-27-2007, 05:42 AM
For once, we are in complete agreement.

The origin of mathematics is Nature.

Such is the first postulate of mathematics. Said postulate is derived from an understanding of the first postulate of physics:

All that exists is quantized.

It is in defining said quantum that all rational understanding of existence must begin.
=========================
So, what is the 4-D space, which called " Minkowski space " ?

Epsilon=One
11-27-2007, 08:32 AM
...what is the 4-D space, which called " Minkowski space " ?Mathematics.

socratus
11-29-2007, 10:13 AM
Mathematics.
=================================
DOES Mathematics OF SRT have real fundament
or it is fantastic theory?

socratus
12-01-2007, 02:24 PM
The SRT is a real theory.
But " 4-D Minkowski space " is an abstract theory.
There isn't any proof of its existence.
And if we mix these two theories then we are
surprised with its paradox.
What does the man usually do in such situation?
It is clear, he must understand
what " 4-D Minkowski space " is. I say, it is Vacuum.
But somebody can say: " You are wrong,
4-D Minkowski space is only a part of 11-D space."
Maybe this argument is correct. Then we must suppose
that the 11-D space will be a part of some 47-D space
in 50 years. And who knows where its end is.
Perhaps in 123-D space the physicists will find the God there.
In another words, if we don't know what " 4-D Minkowski
space " is, so it is impossible to take SRT as a finished one.
The proof of SRT isn't over yet. We must give a real
interpretation to " 4-D Minkowski space ". I only hope that
a simple, usual logic will help a man to understand its essence.
====== =========
P.S.
Sorry.
I forgot that all Universe began from " apparent big bang ".
So I must add the " apparent big bang " to " D-space"
・・..or to " the God "........... ......... ..
Then ............ ...
The atheist will say : " There isn't any God. There is only
big band which destroyed all "D- spaces" and therefore
we see background radiation T=2,7K now."
And religious man will say: " The God exists.
He sits at his " D- home" and plays with all things.
For example.
The action, when the God compresses all Universe
into his palm, we have named " a singular point".
And action, when the God opens his palm,
we have named the "Big Bang".
I don't know who is right.
But I came to conclusion:
" If I, as a peasant, think like modern physicists,
I will never gather my harvest . Because if I plant ,
for example, an electron I will get ・a positron, ・
・.quark,・aryon,・boson,・.meson,・muon,・.tau, ....
....D- spaces ・ and in the future centaurs and sphinxes."
============================

socratus
01-08-2008, 07:52 AM
Comic situation.
----------
On July 2007 I wrote article:
Do mathematicians understand Physics? / What is for whom?/
The idea is:
Mathematics is not written for mathematicians.
Mathematics is written for physics, for Nature.
This simple fact has been forgotten in science.
…………………….etc
Now mathematics goes ahead of science
and physics follows it. Mathematicians carry the posters
"Forward to abstraction", "Forward to the absurd"
and we all follow them. We march bravely on the dinosaur’s path.
========.
After enough long discussion I resaved comment from
one mathematician. Here this comment.
===================..
Do mathematicians understand Physics?
To answer your question directly,
Mathematicians are NOT physicists.
Therefore, you can't expect a mathematician to understand everything a physicist knows and vice versa. Usually the two fields are closely intertwined however, so there is a lot of shared knowledge. It is just as much of a mistake to say that mathematicians understand everything about physics as it is to say mathematicians understand nothing about physics.
Mathematics is an abstract representation of the real world which is applicable
in just about every profession which makes it a fundamental skill. By using it,
you can model the real world to make accurate predictions. However, math is worthless if you can't effectively use it in the real world.
Physics uses a lot of math to model the real world.
You can't be a good physicist if you don't have math ability and reasoning skills.
To respond to the original post, I'll ask this:
Should we believe a physicist who doesn't understand mathematics?
===============..
So, it is possible to say that mathematicians not guilty.
All guilt lies on physicists.
" Should we believe a physicist who doesn't understand mathematics? "
Does anybody see the comic situation?

Epsilon=One
01-09-2008, 12:00 AM
DOES Mathematics OF SRT have real fundament or it is fantastic theory?You've answered your question, as well as explained the concept of special relativity theory, with the acronym that you've selected.

socratus
06-16-2008, 06:30 AM
Mr. B. wrote:
If you are looking for support, at most you will find paranoid
and/or confused individuals who want to take shelter in your
us-vs.-them state of mind.

Who is who?
=================....
1.
The speed of Light quantum is constant: c=1,
no matter how the source or the observer moves.
/ Michelson’s experiment. 1881. SRT. 1905. /
2.
But .. .. in every book and textbook is written that
there isn’t absolute speed. For example in the book
“ Relative theory- actual” by Prof. Ernst Schmutzer.
Part 3.2.2.page 122. and
Part 3.2.4. page 130.

Another book “Relativity for the layman”
By James A. Coleman.
Part 3 pages 47 -48

Another book “The materialistic essence of Einstein’s
Relative theory” by Mostepanenko M. B.
Page 37.

Another book “ Einstein and development of physical/
mathematical thought.” by Science Academy of
USSR. Article “ Physics and Relative theory”
by M. Born. On the pages 74 and 81.
And article “ Relative theory and some questions
about the optic of moving bodies” by Francfurt U. I.
and Frenk A.M. Page 224: “ Relative theory
doesn’t know absolute moving”.
etc….
3.
From the school days I cannot understand how
it is possible to say that the speed of photon is
absolute constant c=1 and in the same time to say :
“ All motion is relative (hence ,the theory of relativity).
We can never speak of absolute motion as such,…..”
…etc.
Maybe somebody can explain me this paradox.
==========..
It is very difficult to prove the correctness
in our Orwell's mad house.

====================...
Best wishes.
Israel.

HallsofIvy
06-27-2008, 11:05 AM
SRT and mathematicians.
==================
Mathematics is not written for mathematicians.
Mathematics is written for physics, for Nature.
This simple fact is forgotten in the science now.
You wish to ban Economists, chemists, or biologists from using mathematics?

What if I want to calculate a 15% tip on my dinner check? I'm not allowed to use mathematics to do that anymore?

1.
After war, in Russia there were many thieves' gangs
And I, as a boy, rotated among one of them.
They had their own language, thieves' jargon.
Not anyone could understand them.
Now I read some mathematical articles and they
remind me forgotten thieves' slang.
Are you laughing? Is it ridiculous ?
For me it isn't ridiculous .
Why?
Because , mathematicians stole the picture
of reality from us . Because they make us
poor and stupid.
Why do you say so?
OK. I will try to prove it and explain my point of view.
=========..
2.
It began in 1905 when Einstein created SRT,
( theory of photon/ electron's behaviour ).
Minkowski, trying to understand SRT, used 4D space.
Poor young Einstein , reading Minkowski interpretation,
said, that now he couldn't understand his own theory.
" You are right, it is difficult to understand SRT, using 4D space.
But using my 5D space it is possible" - said Kaluza in 1921.
This theory was checked up and recognized insufficient.
" Well, - said another mathematicians, - maybe 6D, 7D, 8D, 9D
spaces will explain it". And they had done it.
But the doubts still stay.
"Another" mathematician? Minkowski and Kaluza were not mathematicians.

[quiote]"OK,- they say, - we have only one way to solve this problem,
we must create more complex D spaces " .
And they do it, they use all their power, all their
super intellectuals to solve this problem.
Glory to these mathematicians !!!!
If you are referring to "string theories" with their many different possible dimensions, I'm inclined to agree that it has gotten out of hand. But no mathematician has ever written a paper on string theory- only physicists.

[quote]But……….
But there is one nuance. To create new D space, mathematicians
must take a new parameter. It is impossible to
create new D space without a new parameter.
And the mathematicians take this parameter arbitrarily
( it fixed according to his opinion not objective rules ).
The physicist R. Lipin explained this situation in such way :
" Give me three parameters and I can fit an elephant. With four
I can make him wiggle his trunk…"
To this Lipin's opinion it is possible to add :
" with one more parameter the elephant will fly. "
The mathematicians sell and we buy these theories.
Where are our brains?
How much are the mathematicians charging? Mathematicians create many different MATHEMATICAL theories which physicists (not to mention biologists, economists, historians, etc.) are free to use as they please. If physicists do not have the "brains" to use the CORRECTLY that is the fault of the physicist, not the mathematician.

Please, remember, many D spaces were born as a whish
to understand SRT ( theory of photon/ electron's behaviour ).
But if someone wants to understand, for example,
a bird ( photon / electron) itself and for this he
studies only surroundings will he reach success ?

If I am a king , I will publish a law:
every mathematician who takes part in the creation
of 4D space and higher - to award with a medal
" To the winner of a common sense ".
Why?
Because they have won us, using absurd ideas
of Minkowski and Kaluza.
=======..
P.S.
I asked some mathematician :
There are many different D spaces in the math/ physicist's works.
Are there limits of these D spaces?
Maybe is 123 D space the last and final space ?

He answered:
I think there are as many opinions on this as there
are people giving thought to the issue.

My own opinion is that since the more immediately
obvious 123D option (either parabolic, flat or hyperbolic)
did not allow, despite all efforts, reconciling the various
theories, then there is need to try something else.

Maybe has this time
"then there is need to try something else" come ?

3.
And what is mathematical opinion about photon itself ?
Here is one example how mathematician tries
to solve the problem.
Russian scientist professor V.P. Seleznev created "toro model "
Well, that's a lot of Bull! (sorry, I couldn't help myself.)
I notice that, once again, you quote a physicist by name. Although you talk a lot about "mathematicians", and what "mathematicians" say, you haven't named one. Do you know any modern mathematicians? Unfortunately, what I learn most from you writing is that
1) You really don't know what mathematics IS.
2) You really don't know what mathematicians DO.

of light quanta. According to this model the light quanta is a
constant volume ring ( like bublik) . The speed of it
is different and this fact gives possibility to understand
all light natural phenomenones, overcome through all
contradictions in the physics and to offer a new technology.
So it is written in the book.
/ Book "The secrets of Universe" 1998.
V.D. Demin. Page 377./
Short explanation is given on 4 pages.
Glory to this scientist .!!!!
Glory to this professor !!!!
But….
But I have only one question .
Can this "toro volume ring model "
( like bublik) have volume in Vacuum ?
The answer is " NO "
According to J. Charles law ( 1787),
when the temperature falls down on 1 degree
the volume decreases on 1/273. And when the
temperature reaches -273 degrees the volume
disappears and particles become "flat figures ".
The " Charles law" was confirmed by other physicists:
Gay-Lussac, Planck, Nernst, Einstein .
So, according to Charles law
the "toro volume ring model " is only
mathematic illusion .

There are many different models of photon.
To choose the correct one we needs to ask
a question: " Which geometrical form can
photon have in vacuum ? "
4.
Some scientists say:
" The darkest subject in the science is light quanta."
Maybe now some my readers will understand
better the way on which we must go.
5.
Now mathematics goes ahead science and physics follows it.
Mathematicians carry the posters " Forward to abstract",
" Forward to absurd" and we all follow them.
We go bravely on dinosaur's path.
======================
SRT doesn't have a gravity field.
If there is no gravity field , the space will be flat,
and this space is called " Minkowski space "
(negative 4-D united space/time continuum).
======.
Is the " Minkowski space "abstract continuum, as everybody says?
I think this space is a real one.
I think this space is Vacuum.
Why?
1. " Minkowski space "has no gravity field, but negative parameter.
2. Only Vacuum space has negative parameter : T= - 273.
3. And this negative parameter is united with space/ time ,
which are joined together absolutely .
4. And the second SRT postulate tells about moving
light quanta in Vacuum.
5. It is impossible SRT to be the right theory
and space around SRT to be an abstract theory.
6. If in our brain abstract and real ideas are mixed together
then the interpretation of physics must be paradoxical.
=======.
And in 1915 Einstein put a " MASS " in the
" Minkowski space " and it curved. Why?
And in 1921 A. Freedman put " TIME" in the
" Minkowski space " and it also curved. Why?
==========
If mathematician makes a small mistake in the
beginning of his calculations then after some
operations it grows into a big one.
And if in the beginning of sciences birth (Newton )
the abstract ideas were put into its fundament ,
then now we are surprised with its paradoxes………
……and we can create new and new theories for 1000 years
but the result will be the same - paradoxical.
============ ========= ======..