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DoronShadmi
03-21-2005, 05:26 PM
Important: This topic is based on proofs without words ( http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ProofwithoutWords.html ).


A one rotation of the Archimedean Spiral is exactly 1/3 of the circle’s area ( http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/hmendel/Ancient%20Mathematics/Pappus/Bookiv/Pappus.iv.21-25/Pappus.iv.21_25.html#Prop.%2022 ):

http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/ARCHCON.jpg


If this area is made of infinitely many triangles (as can be seen in the picture below) , it cannot reach 1/3 exactly as 0.33333... cannot reach 1/3:

http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/ARCHDIS.jpg


In order to understand better why 0.33333… < 1/3 please define a 1-1 mapping between each blue level of the multi-scaled Koch’s fractal that is found below, and each member of the infinitely long addition 0.3 + 0.03 + 0.003 + 0.0003 + … that is equivalent to 0.3333…

http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/MULTIKOCH.jpg ( http://members.cox.net/fractalenc/fr6g6s.577m2.html )

In any arbitrary level that we choose, the outer boundary of this multi-fractal has sharp edges.

0.333… = 1/3 only if the outer boundary has no sharp edges.

Since this is not the case, then 0.333… < 1/3.

Actually, we can generalize this conclusion to any 0.xxx… form and in this case 0.999… < 1 where 0.999… is a single path along a fractal that exists upon infinitely many different scales, where 1 is a smooth and non-composed element.

Now we can understand that a one rotation of the Archimedean Spiral is exactly 1/3 of the circle’s area only if we are no longer in a model of infinitely many elements, but in a model that is based on smooth and non-composed elements (and in this case the elements are a one rotation of a smooth and non-composed Archimedean Spiral and a one smooth and non-composed circle).

A model of infinitely many elements and a model of a non-composed element have a XOR connective between them.

Therefore the Cantorean aleph0 cannot be considered as the cardinal of N , because N is a collection of infinitely many elements that cannot be completed exactly as 0.9999... < 1.

In other words, by defining the Cantorean aleph0 as an exact cardinal of infinitely many elements, we are no longer in any relation with N, because N is based on a model of infinitely many elements and the Cantorean aleph0 cannot be but a non-composed and infinitely long element, which is too strong to be used as an input by any mathematical tool, and therefore it cannot be manipulated by the language of Mathematics.


Some words about Riemann's Ball:

By using Riemann's Ball we can clearly distinguish between potential infinity and actual infinity.

http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/RIMLIM.jpg

As we can see from the above example, no infinitely many objects (where an object = an intersection in this model) can reach actual infinity.

In our example we represent only Z* numbers, but between any two of them we can find rational and irrational numbers.

Riemann's limits are 0 and ∞ (or -∞), and all our number systems are limited to potential infinities, existing in the open intervals (0,∞) or (-∞,0).

When we reach actual infinity, then we have no information for any method that defines infinity by infinitely many objects.

Also ∞ cannot be defined as a point at infinity in this model, because no intersection (therefore no point) can be found when we reach ∞.


More information of this subject can be found in:

http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/ed.pdf

http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/Successor.pdf


I am a Monadist.

In Monadic Mathematics there are two separated models of the non-finite:

a) A model that is based on the term "infinitely many ...".

b) A model that is based on the term "infinitely long (non-composed) ...".


The Cantorean universe is based only on (a) model.

Because of this reason Cantor did not understand that when he use an AND connective between totality (the term 'all') and a collection of infinitely many ... , he immediately find himself in (b) model.

Please read very carefully my Riemann's Ball argument , in order to understand the phase transition between (a) model and (b) model (and vise versa).

If you understand Riemann's Ball argument then you can clearly see that Aleph0 cannot be but a (b) model.

Since there is a XOR connective between (a) model and (b) model, there is no relation between Aleph0, which is a (b) model, and set N, which is an (a) model.



The foundations of Monadic Mathematics:


A scope is a marked zone where an abstract/non-abstract discussable entity can be examined.


An atom is a non-composed scope.

Examples: {} (= an empty scope), . (= a point), ._. (=a segment),
__ or .__ or __. (= an infinitely long entity).


An empty scope is a marked zone without any content.

An example: {}


A point is a non-composed and non-empty scope that has no directions where a direction is < , > or < > .

An example: .


A segment is a non-composed and non-empty scope that has directions which are closed upon themselves, or has at least two reachable edges.

An example: O , .__.

Each segment can have a unique name, which is based on its ratio to some arbitrary segment, which its name is 0_1.


An infinitely long entity is a non-composed non-empty scope which is not closed on itself and has no more than one reachable edge.

An example: __ , .__ , __.


Non-atom (or notom) is a scope that includes at leat one scope as its content.

An example: {{}}, {__}, { {},{{{}},{},{}},...}, {{{}} , . , ._. , ...} etc.


A sub-scope is a scope that exists within another scope.


An Open notom (or Onotom) is a collection of sub-scopes that has no first sub-scope and not a last sub-scope, or a one and only one infinitely long entity with no edges.

An example: {... ,{},{},{}, ...}, {__}, {... ,{{}},{},{}, ...} etc.


A Half-Closed notom (or Hnotom) is a scope that includes a first sub-scope but not a last sub-scope, or a last sub-scope and not a first sub-scope.

Also a Hnotom can be based on a one infinitely long entity that has at least one reachable edge.

An example: {{},{},{},...}, {.__}, {__.} etc.


A Closed notom (or Cnotom) is a scope that includes a first sub-scope and a last sub-scope, and it does not include Hnotom or Onotom.

An example: {{},{},{}}, {{}}, {{},{{},{{}}},._.} etc.


A Nested-Level is a common environment for a finite or non-finite collection of sub-scopes.


If a notom includes identical sub-scopes ( __ , .__ or __. are excluded), then it is called a First-Order Collection (or FOC).

An example:

{{},{},{},...}, {._. , ._. , ._. , ...}, {... ,{},{}, ...}, {... , ._. , ._. , ...}
{{},{}}, {{{}},{{}},{{}}}, {{.},{.},{.},...}, {{._.},{._.}} etc.

The name of an atom or a notom within some FOC is determined by its internal property and/or its place in the collection. From this definition it is understood that each atom or notom within a FOC, has more than one name.


Non-FOC (or NFOC) is a nested-level that does not include identical sub-scopes.

An example:

{{} , . , {} , ...}, {{._.} , ._. , ._. , ...}, {... ,{.},{}, ...}, {... , ._. ,{._.} , ...}
{{},{.}}, {{{}} ,{} ,{{}}}, {{},{.},{.},...}, {{},{._.}} etc.

Any atom ( __ is excluded) or notom has a unique name only if it can be distinguished from the other atoms or notoms that share with it the same nested level.


Let redundancy be: more than one copy of the same entity can be found.

Let uncertainty be: more than a one unique name is related to an entity.



An edge and a point:


A point is a non-composed and non-empty scope that has no directions where a direction is < , > or < > .

An example: .


An edge is an inseparable part of an atom that has a direction.

An example: ._. , .__ , __.



A more developed version of this framework (but with different names) can be found in:

http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/My-first-axioms.pdf

DoronShadmi
03-24-2005, 04:05 AM
you seem to reject the notion of limits.

What is considered as a limit of some sequence that can be found upon infinitely many ordered scales, cannot be the limit of this sequence.

The reason is very simple, because if we examine the absolute value of the gap (the segment length) between any member in the sequence and the element that is considered as the limit of the sequence, we get the ratio 0_x/0 , where 0_x is the gap > 0 (which is a segment) and 0 is the gap between the limit to itself (which is a point).

From a point of view of a point (which is the hypothetic limit) each segment has the same length, and therefore nothing is converged to the point from the point's point of view, and the point cannot be considered as the limit of any segment.

The ratio 0_x/0 clearly gives us the notion that a point is not a limit of a segment (where a segment in this case is any gap > 0).

Instead of the limit concept, we can take any arbitrary segment and check the gaps (segments) relations of the sequence members, according to it (for example 0_x/0_s where 0_s is the arbitrary segment and 0_x is any member of the examined sequence).

Epsilon=One
07-18-2005, 04:22 PM
From a point of view of a point (which is the hypothetic limit) each segment has the same length, and therefore nothing is converged to the point from the point's point of view, and the point cannot be considered as the limit of any segment.

It appears to me that, notwithstanding the segments of your sequence, you do assume that a point (the infinitesimal, an aspect of infinity) can be a limit. Is this so? And, can this limit be defined as infinity? If not, why not?

If you do not consider infinity as a limit determined by speed; then, as precisely as possible, in so many words, as nearly as possible, what do you consider as infinity?

If infinity is a singularity, logic would dictate a single model, as opposed to your suggested two models; with any additional models, therefore, being less than infinity.

DoronShadmi
11-10-2005, 03:31 PM
In the attached page http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/no1.pdf we can understand that there is a deep connection between our abstract ideas and the ways that they are represented by us.

I'll be glad to know your point of view.

http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/no_1.jpg


------------------------------------------------------------------------

The length 0.222... is not different just because it is drawn in a different position of the line! Yes, the purple rectangle indicates a different interval than the green one, but the value 0.222... is the same value wherever we draw an interval that have it as its length.

Using this silly argument we could also say such a thing as:

"8-7 is not the same as 3-2.
Since 123456789
and the purple part is definitively not the same as the green part."

but of course this is wrong: 8-7 = 3-2 = 1 = 0.999...
(where ... means that we take the limit as the number of decimals increases without bounds)
Juma,

All you did is to simply ignore my argument as if it does not exist in front of your mind.

0.222... has an exact position in 2.222... and the same holds for 0.999... in 9.999... and generally any 0.###... (where # is the highest value of any base n>1) has an exact position in #.###...

My new representation method clearly shows that the initial 0.###... entity is definitely not the result of #.000*X/#.000 = 1, and all you do is to eliminate 0.###... by #.###... - 0.###... subtraction, and then you use #.000*X/#.000 = 1 in order to get your requested result, which is clearly not 0.###... entity (marked by purple in my argument), which was simply replaced by you by 1 (which is another entity, marked by green in my argument) in order to get the requested result, which is false if you insist that the initial X=0.###... and the result X=1 are the same mathematical entity.

What I have discovered in this argument is that there is an inseparable connection between our representation methods and our abilities to understand correctly abstract ideas/insights.

It means that the standard linear representation method actually prevents from us to deeply understand abstract thoughts, and new and better representation methods have to be developed, exactly as I did in this particular argument.

Any non-finite collection is incomplete by definition, as I clearly and simply prove in (and this incompleteness is represented by 0.000...1 where 1 is a permanent successor that permanently cannot be included in the non-finite and incomplete .000... sequence, and "..." does not mark our inability to write down a non-finite sequence of zeros, "..." actually says that any non-finite collection is incomplete by its vary own nature):

http://www.createforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=39&start=15&mforum=geproject

http://www.createforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=45&mforum=geproject

In other words, there is no such a thing like a complete non-finite collection.

You can say "show me a natural number which is not in N".

My answer to this question is very simple:

Natural numbers are defined by their axioms and the existence of each n in N does depend on how much n members are in N.

In other words, if we want to understand what a non-finite collection is, we have to deeply research the Successor concept, as I did in the above links.


0.999... means lim(n->inf) [ sum(i:0->n) [ 0.9 / 10^i ] ].
This representation is not an imprecise approximation of some other number, but it is that number. It is that number because it is defined as the limit of increasingly precise approximations. It is as precise as possible to that number, which is to say, exactly that number.

I agree with you that "It is as precise as possible to that number" that cannot be that number, because any non-finite sequence is incomplete by its vary own nature.

Therefore 1 is not the limit of 0.999... because each "9" represents some scale-level of an endless fractal, and if 0.999... = 1 than this endless fractal does not have non-finite scale levels, which is impossible if 0.999... is a path along this endless fractal.

Since 0.999... is a path along an endless (non-finite) fractal (as can clearly be seen in my 0.222... which apears in my first message of this thread), then [b]0.999... [base 10] not= 1


Please explain what 0.00.....1 or 9.000....1 means. If you think that 0.999... is not equal to 1 what number is between them. Between any two distinct real numbers there is always another real number.

ex-xian,

The answer is very simple.

Between any base n>1 0.###... number there exists a base (n>1)+1 0.###... number, for example:

http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/base2_3.jpg

In this example we can clearly see that 0.222... is between [b]0.111... [base 2] and 1.

All the numbers in the above example have infinite precision. The proof that 0.999... = 1 relies on uncontroversial premises of transfinite set theory. That numbers don't have infinite precision in "real life" is sublimely ignored by mathematicians, with a slight narrowing of the eyes, a lift to the nose and a subtle pursing of the lips.
There is no such a thing "uncontroversial premises" of abstarct ideas.

In other words, in my work I clearly show that no non-finite collection has an accurate cardinal.

Therefore the Cantorean transfinite universe does not hold.

For more details, please look at:

http://www.createforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=45&mforum=geproject

http://www.createforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=39&start=15&mforum=geproject

The problem with this picture is that convenient ". . . " you have.

If we disregard the ". . . " then it is true that for any number of decimal places,

.11 [base 2] < .22 [base 3] < 1,
.1111 [base 2] < .2222 [base 3] < 1,
and .111111 [base 2] < .222222 [base 3] < 1.

[b]But, it is not true that
.11 [base 2] < .2 [base 3] < 1.

The interesting thing that happens is when we use the convenient ". . . ". These numbers converge to each other and all of them are equal to 1. (remember that ". . . " is just short hand for a well defined limit)

This is a simple result of the fact that they converge as you add decimal places. The numbers "go to" 1 as the number of decimal places increases. A good way to understand this is that in order to measure any difference between the [base 2] and [base 3], the decimal must be terminated somewhere and if we do this, we are no longer considering the " . . . ".
1) I am talking always about the highest value of each [base n>1] non-finite sequence.

For example:

The highest value of base 10 is 9,
The highest value of base 2 is 1,
The highest value of base 3 is 2,
...
The highest value of base n+1 is n


2) The examined sequences must have the same number of scale levels.

So, your example does not hold in this case.


No, each one of them has its own unclosed gaps between itself and 1, and these unclosed gaps are the interesting things that can be found on non-finite scale levels along each unique path that exists along the non-finite fractal.

OK, we'll use your picture to try to explain this a little better. I think we have different ideas of what ". . . " really means. Let's consider each "scale level" as you like to call them. We'll just number each scale level in your picture with the naturals like so:

1 ----> .1 [base 2] < .2 [base 3] < 1
2 ----> .11 [base 2] < .22 [base 3] < 1
3 ----> .111 [base 2] < .222 [base 3] < 1

and so on.

It should be clear that there is a difference between all of these numbers (and we can compute this difference if we want to). What it seems like you are saying is that for any "scale level" there must be a difference between all three numbers and I will agree with you. But that is not what ". . . " means.

Consider the function f() that is the difference between 1 and each "scale level":

1 - .1 [base 2] = f(1)
1 - .11 [base 2] = f(2)
1 - .111 [base 2] = f(3)
1 - .1111 [base 2] = f(4)

and so on.

Now there is no "magic" n where f(n) = 0.
In fact, there does not exist an n so large such that f(n) = 0.
But, there is also no number, call it "e," so small that f(m) > e, for any m.

In conclusion, ". . . " does not mean that f(n) = 0 for some n, it means that f(m) < e for any arbitrarily small e.
"..." says exactly what I mean, which is:

Any non-finite collection/sequence is incomplete by its vary own nature, and e is not some number along the non-finite sequence that is smaller than each f(n), but it is a permanent and invariant proportion of self-similarity upon non-finite fractal's scale-levels, and this proportion > 0 , and it determined according to the structure of each non-finite sequence.

I guess ". . . " can mean whatever you want it to.
I agree with you, but if I have a choice then I prefer the simpler, richer and nicer interpretation to "..." .

A part of my work, about this case ( http://www.createforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=45&mforum=geproject ), which deals with the Successor concept from a totally new point of view:

My concept of a non-finite collection is based on a "cloud-like" magnitude of any collection of infinitely many elements, for example:

Let us take for example the non-finite collection of the Natural numbers.

The Successor of this collection is notated as +1, because the simplest structure of the Natural numbers is the non-composed and non-finite collection that is notated as {1,1,1,1,1,…}+1, where +1 (the Successor) is the permanent next element, the existence of which was proven by Cantor’s second Diagonal method.

If the Identity map of a non-finite collection does not exist, then its exact cardinality does not exist and the Natural numbers’ cardinality is |N|-Successor, because the Successor is permanently out of our desirable “complete” domain.

Let @ be |N|-Successor

If A = @ and B = @-2^@, then A > B by 2^@, where both A and B are collections of infinitely many elements.

Also 3^@ > 2^@ > @ > @-1 etc.

So as we can see, in my universe I have both non-finite collections and unique arithmetic between non-finite collections, which its result is always a non-finite collection.

My results are richer than the Cantorean transfinite universe, for example:

By Cantor aleph0 = aleph0+1 , by me @+1 > @ .

By Cantor aleph0<2^aleph0 , by me @<2^@ .

By Cantor aleph0-2^aleph0 is undefined, by me @-2^@ < @ .

By Cantor 3^aleph0 = 2^aleph0 > aleph0 and aleph0-1 is problematic.

By me 3^@ > 2^@ > @ > @-1 etc.


|{{1,1,…}+1, 1,1,1}| > |{{1,1,…}+1}| by |{1,1,1}|.

|{{1,1,…}+1,{1,1,…}+1}| = |{{1},{1}}|•@ > |{{1,1,…}+1}| by |{1}|•@ and
|{{{1,1,…}+1, 1,1,…}+1}| = |{{1},1}|•@ > |{{1,1,…}+1}| by |{1}|•@ but they have different internal structures
( {{1},{1}} and {{1},1} ).

For further information, please read http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/Successor.pdf.


"If the zero's continue forever, then you can never stop writing zero's to add a one at the end. There is no end to the string."


Exactly, and 1 at the end of .0000... is actually _1, which is a non-composed segment that no infinitely many zeros can eliminate.

Furthermore, without the permanent existence of _1 upon non-finite scale-levels, as can clearly be seen in base 2 and base 3 examples (the infinitly many right segments), .000... immediately becomes a finite sequence:

http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/base2_3.jpg

ed van der meulen
11-27-2005, 06:07 PM
I am a pure mathematician, and cardinalities is a separate subject in mathematics.

Do you know Cantor's continuum HYPOTHESIS. That is a hypothesis, not proved.

aleph0 ^aleph0 = 2^aleph0 and you can proof that with mapping yourself. Grin. Or you could learn about that.

I don't believe in infinities. Please try to reach the horizon. Do you know of the notion recursive? Not jumping to conclusions.

have a splendid day

ed van der meulen

DoronShadmi
12-23-2005, 04:52 PM
Dear ed van der meulen,

Please look at http://physicsmathforums.com/showthread.php?p=1136#post1136.

Thank you.