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View Full Version : beating the universal dog into submission...


beagrie
03-08-2005, 07:03 PM
i've been looking all over the internet and while i've found plenty of pages and posts addressing the issue itself but none of them seem to specifically satisfy what im looking for. so i decided to make my own post. basically im looking for some feedback on my theory, if thats the right word, on outside the universe and my take on some common thought trains on the subect.

so the universe is finite and has boundries. this implies that there IS something outside it. but in actual fact there is nothing outside the universe. but it does have boundries. the way i see it the universe is everything to us, and everything that is inside it. the universe isn't defined by the fact that theres matter inside it, empty space has something like one molecule every so often, but more defined by space and time. our universe so far as we know runs on the principle of space and time. one day follows another. you can't get from here to there without passing through the middle ground. light can only travel so fast and thats as fast as anything can travel. rules that the very molecules that make up our bodies operate on. all these rules, all the matter and energy and all the space and time in the universe IS what makes the universe. therefore it would be fair to assume that outside the universe these things aren't there.

so i believe that outside the universe may be absolutely nothing at all, in the sense that there is actually an outside but there is absolutely nothing there rather than the universe being infinate, or there may be a higer plane of existance such as 4 dimensional space. it may even be inside the nuclear reactor of some power plant in alternate dimension. and there may be other universes where the speed of light is twice what it is here or empty space looks blue rather than black. but we wouldn't be able to comprehend any of that. we exist in THIS space time under the rules that go with it.

so if theres absolute nothing outside the universe. theres no light so you can't see, but would it look black, theres no light spectrum or rules to suggest it should. the universe is expanding into nothingness so does it just stay the same from the outside? does it grow bigger? could it get too big and impact with another universe in the nothingness or with there being nothing there, could two universes pratically be in the same place? is there even a 'place' so to speak for them to be?

my point is we live in this universe and no matter how smart we get or how many technological advances we make we'll never understand whats outside the universe unless we somehow manage to get outside the universe. but given that the molecules in our body operate under the laws of gravity and other such universe specific things, i would suspect leaving those laws behind would be a bad thing. its like trying to understand what heartbreak feels like. you can get as many accounts as you like and read up on it. but you don't understand it untill you've experienced it. and you can't comprehend exactly what it is until that moment. whatevers outside our universe isn't meant for us to understand. outside our solar system is something we can understand. outside our galaxy. trying to understand how things work in a place where things we take for granted on such a subtle level we can go through millions of years of life on earth and not realise their there would be an effort in futility comparable to a blindfolded man trying to take down an elephant with a blunt toothpick.

MacM
03-09-2005, 11:58 AM
i've been looking all over the internet and while i've found plenty of pages and posts addressing the issue itself but none of them seem to specifically satisfy what im looking for. so i decided to make my own post. basically im looking for some feedback on my theory, if thats the right word, on outside the universe and my take on some common thought trains on the subect.

so the universe is finite and has boundries. this implies that there IS something outside it. but in actual fact there is nothing outside the universe. but it does have boundries. the way i see it the universe is everything to us, and everything that is inside it. the universe isn't defined by the fact that theres matter inside it, empty space has something like one molecule every so often, but more defined by space and time. our universe so far as we know runs on the principle of space and time. one day follows another. you can't get from here to there without passing through the middle ground. light can only travel so fast and thats as fast as anything can travel. rules that the very molecules that make up our bodies operate on. all these rules, all the matter and energy and all the space and time in the universe IS what makes the universe. therefore it would be fair to assume that outside the universe these things aren't there.

so i believe that outside the universe may be absolutely nothing at all, in the sense that there is actually an outside but there is absolutely nothing there rather than the universe being infinate, or there may be a higer plane of existance such as 4 dimensional space. it may even be inside the nuclear reactor of some power plant in alternate dimension. and there may be other universes where the speed of light is twice what it is here or empty space looks blue rather than black. but we wouldn't be able to comprehend any of that. we exist in THIS space time under the rules that go with it.

so if theres absolute nothing outside the universe. theres no light so you can't see, but would it look black, theres no light spectrum or rules to suggest it should. the universe is expanding into nothingness so does it just stay the same from the outside? does it grow bigger? could it get too big and impact with another universe in the nothingness or with there being nothing there, could two universes pratically be in the same place? is there even a 'place' so to speak for them to be?

my point is we live in this universe and no matter how smart we get or how many technological advances we make we'll never understand whats outside the universe unless we somehow manage to get outside the universe. but given that the molecules in our body operate under the laws of gravity and other such universe specific things, i would suspect leaving those laws behind would be a bad thing. its like trying to understand what heartbreak feels like. you can get as many accounts as you like and read up on it. but you don't understand it untill you've experienced it. and you can't comprehend exactly what it is until that moment. whatevers outside our universe isn't meant for us to understand. outside our solar system is something we can understand. outside our galaxy. trying to understand how things work in a place where things we take for granted on such a subtle level we can go through millions of years of life on earth and not realise their there would be an effort in futility comparable to a blindfolded man trying to take down an elephant with a blunt toothpick.

This is not an easy thing to express to most people. The idea of a finite universe conjures up the view of an egg shell boundry which means there is something beyond the boundry.

I have developed a view of a time-space boundry. That is the boundry is formed at a point of the end of time-space. Nothing exists where there is no time space. So there is nothing (not as in a void) beyond such boundry.

Epsilon=One
07-15-2005, 07:07 AM
The locus of reality is congruent with the locus of infinity.

The locus of infinity is defined by speed; not size nor distance.

The locus of the universe, if defined by the first motion, would be a finite ellipsoid, which oscillates, relativistically, in a complex manner.

Thus, as observed with accelerating, galactic super-super clusters the age of the universe, though finite, would be exponentially greater than 13 or 14 billion years. This would seem to allow observation to conclude that a finite universe approaches the infinite locus of reality . . . probably enough time for life to evolve.

Infinity is a limit that, from reality, can only be approached.

Infinity is a singularity.

The infinite is a limit that, from reality, can only be approached.

The Infinite is a singularity.

The infinitesimal is a limit that, from reality, can only be approached.

The Infinitesimal is a singularity.

There can be only one singularity.

Thus, the infinite and the infinitesimal are the same locus; this locus can be referred to as infinity . . . or the duality of infinity.

Gravitational attraction “appears” to operate from the infinitesimal within every particle of matter.

Accelerating attraction also “appears” to operate from the infinite as observed in the falling “away” of enormous cosmic structures . . . accelerating, galactic recession.

Thus, the duality of gravity.

Cosmic inertia, at the antropic scale, is a minuscule force that appears to be without acceleration because it operates from a great distance and only affects large concentrations of mass.

Thus, Einstein made three mistakes; not one as he contended; the source, the direction, and the acceleration of the Cosmological Constant.

It would seem that if one could look far enough, one would not see the back of a head; but, one would be looking out from every particle of mass . . . or vice versa.

divineson
07-16-2005, 10:07 AM
i am not an academic and as such will probably make a fool of myself in these forums. first post, can't you tell. i was just wondering.

if you lived inside a giant beachball and couldn't see to it's surface (on the inside), wouldn't you believe your universe to be infinite?

in the same vein but unrelated, if an artificial intelligence ever acquired consciousness wouldn't it believe itself to be organic?

So where are we and what are we? On a spiritual level and perhaps even scientific i personally believe we live inside a brain, much like our own. i have never read anything to make me doubt it.

Epsilon=One
01-18-2006, 05:33 PM
i am not an academic and as such will probably make a fool of myself in these forums. ...

if you lived inside a giant beachball and couldn't see to it's surface...wouldn't you believe your universe to be infinite?

...if an artificial intelligence ever acquired consciousness wouldn't it believe itself to be organic?

So where are we and what are we? ...i personally believe we live inside a brain, much like our own.Theoretical physicists might learn much if they would think as deeply as you do.