How image flow?

[heikki]

:)

Hi.

I have study our seeing system. Eyes-brain-mind.

And i notice that we dont yet known much about image flowing process and image store process to our brain.

Object image flow from object through space-matter and eyes to brain. And brain store that image. And mind can look that brain-image, memoryes etc.

Few question start.

1. How color-image can flow throug matter (air, glass, space, etc) without mixes other images?

2. And why it dont goes through at some matter like paper, wood, steel, etc.

3. How brain-cell can store that image to itself?

4. What is matter physical construction of that flowing image?

br. Heikki.

:)

[thejoshrules]

Posting to question 1.:
I heard before(which i can be wrong) that color is just are representation of the intensity of light on things. Light is a source of energy so, i guess when we send this picture in our mind, we send amounts of energy for a certain nerve in our eye therefore ditecting the intensity and color of light in our brain. but i dont understand how we could accually store images and memories in our mind through energy, will someone explain this... :confused:

[heikki]

Posting to question 1.:

but i dont understand how we could accually store images and memories in our mind through energy, will someone explain this... :confused:

:)

You have understand my question partly right, how it store it is important question of future brain-study.

But, my thought this image appearance is that object itself has colors and light itself is colorless material.

My thought is that brains store image-material some kind of material-process but i cannot imagine how. My thought is that color-image is much smaller particle size than our atom-theory particle size is.

This is interesting question.

continue...

:)

[OfficeShredder]

Light itself is colorless material? I suggest you first do some research on what light is, then what it means to see something (i.e. process light).

In terms of how awesome it is that we can see things and store them as memory, I can buy a computer scanner that does the same thing

[thejoshrules]

I understand light, i was just tring to explain that it isn't color, but its the eye's preception of when light bounces off things to give off a certain color in the humans eye.

[heikki]

Light itself is colorless material? I suggest you first do some research on what light is, then what it means to see something (i.e. process light).

In terms of how awesome it is that we can see things and store them as memory, I can buy a computer scanner that does the same thing

:)

I study what light and colors is.

I look out. Sun-shining comes to my room through window-glass. I dont see it. I can see only all objects colors at my room. When i paint window-glass thin color layer, example skyblue. My room is colored skyblue kind. If i paint green. My room looks green kind. Etc. If i paint strong black, my room is black. What happend of this window-color-process?

My thought is that sunlight flow through window and take colorparticles with it from that paint-layer. When time goes color particles amount decreace and i must paint window again, like paintings on the wall.

Therefore i think that color-thing place is in object and light-thing is colorless material particle stuff. I dont see any reasons why objects dont kept color-thing in it and etc.
(Of cource pure colorless light dont exist because all light source send always little bit color, yellow, orange, etc.)

Other example. Antenna tower. Red light on the top. If i stand near the light i can see my hand light and little bit red. Far away i cannot see my hand light and little bit red. Still i can see that red color on the top. What this mean? I mean that colorless light dont travel so long than color itself. And also colorless light dont keep form like color-light. I mean that color-light is different thing than colorless light.


Therefore i say.

Light is mainly colorless.
Colors are in object.
Both are material particle stuff.
And there is different speed-curve m/s|travell distance of it.
---

Computer memory-store is different than brain-memory store system. Totally different. It is not a question 'awesome'. It is big scientifical question, how our brain-cell store that what comes through eyes?

Also important to our healthy. Specially future, because we increace so much this radio-wave-matter-motion-vibration technology.
How it effect to our brain-cell memory system?

Big and difficult questions? New things. This area dont have school books ready. So, it need that new physics.

continue...

:)

[Epsilon=One]

Big and difficult questions? New things. This area dont have school books ready. So, it need that new physics.New physics is definitely needed; however, not to answer your questions.

The answers to most all of your questions are well understood by researchers across many disciplines. Many books are available; ask your librarian.

Google searches can quickly provide many of the answers you seek.

Your questions concern concepts that everyone should be concerned with and understand. Continue to seek answers until your doubts are assuaged.

[OfficeShredder]

:)

I study what light and colors is.

I look out. Sun-shining comes to my room through window-glass. I dont see it. I can see only all objects colors at my room. When i paint window-glass thin color layer, example skyblue. My room is colored skyblue kind. If i paint green. My room looks green kind. Etc. If i paint strong black, my room is black. What happend of this window-color-process?

What do you see when you look at the sun?

For theoretical sake, imagine the sun is a single point, radiating light (it essentially is that far away). If light comes from that point, and strikes a leaf, how could you see that light before it struck the leaf?

My thought is that sunlight flow through window and take colorparticles with it from that paint-layer. When time goes color particles amount decreace and i must paint window again, like paintings on the wall.

Therefore i think that color-thing place is in object and light-thing is colorless material particle stuff. I dont see any reasons why objects dont kept color-thing in it and etc.

There's no instrinsic value for "color". When light strikes your eye, your eye measures what wavelength it is. Your brain then transforms that into color.

On the question of how light bounces off things:

Simple explanation: some light is reflected from an object, some light is absorbed. So a green object reflects light in wavelengths that our brain equates with green, while absorbing other colors

(Of cource pure colorless light dont exist because all light source send always little bit color, yellow, orange, etc.)

Other example. Antenna tower. Red light on the top. If i stand near the light i can see my hand light and little bit red. Far away i cannot see my hand light and little bit red. Still i can see that red color on the top. What this mean? I mean that colorless light dont travel so long than color itself. And also colorless light dont keep form like color-light. I mean that color-light is different thing than colorless light.

This "colorless" light you speak of is actually white light. So it consists of every color's wavelength equally. When your hand is near that red light, there are a lot more red photons striking it. Now, what I said about reflecting only certain colors before is kind of a lie. A green leaf may reflect 80% of the green photons that strike it, but only 10% of the photons with a wavelength we view as red. But if there are 1000 times as many red photons as green photons, then we see the leaf as red. That's what's happening with your hand.


Computer memory-store is different than brain-memory store system. Totally different. It is not a question 'awesome'. It is big scientifical question, how our brain-cell store that what comes through eyes?

Also important to our healthy. Specially future, because we increace so much this radio-wave-matter-motion-vibration technology.
How it effect to our brain-cell memory system?

Big and difficult questions? New things. This area dont have school books ready. So, it need that new physics.

continue...

:)

Actually, the specifics behind how our brain stores visual information is currently being researched. However, it's clearly not a non-trivial matter, as humans are capable of replicating the result. So the ability to do it is not remarkable, although how we specifically do it may be. I suggest you go to wikipedia.com and start searching the site, it has a lot of good beginner info (type in visual pathway or visual cognizance to start, it should get you on the right path)

[Epsilon=One]

What do you see when you look at the sun?

For theoretical sake, imagine the sun is a single point, radiating light (it essentially is that far away). If light comes from that point, and strikes a leaf, how could you see that light before it struck the leaf?

There's no instrinsic value for "color". When light strikes your eye, your eye measures what wavelength it is. Your brain then transforms that into color.

On the question of how light bounces off things:

Simple explanation: some light is reflected from an object, some light is absorbed. So a green object reflects light in wavelengths that our brain equates with green, while absorbing other colors

This "colorless" light you speak of is actually white light. So it consists of every color's wavelength equally. When your hand is near that red light, there are a lot more red photons striking it. Now, what I said about reflecting only certain colors before is kind of a lie. A green leaf may reflect 80% of the green photons that strike it, but only 10% of the photons with a wavelength we view as red. But if there are 1000 times as many red photons as green photons, then we see the leaf as red. That's what's happening with your hand.

Actually, the specifics behind how our brain stores visual information is currently being researched. However, it's clearly not a non-trivial matter, as humans are capable of replicating the result. So the ability to do it is not remarkable, although how we specifically do it may be. I suggest you go to wikipedia.com and start searching the site, it has a lot of good beginner info (type in visual pathway or visual cognizance to start, it should get you on the right path)I'm reposting your comments.

Excellent explanation that a layperson should be able to understand.

Your patience to so clearly explain some difficult concepts is well appreciated.

I like to make clear to small children that they do not see "out" from their eyes; but that, light waves come from a source, bounce off objects (that they "see") and then go to their eyes where signals are sent to the brain that makes the "picture" that they sense. Once this concept begins to take hold, there are usually many more questions that I like to think start 4, 5, and 6 year olds on a life of awareness.

Other topics that I like to follow with are how the waves don't interfere (unlike a bat hitting a ball or a ball bouncing off the wall) because a group of kids at different angles can all look at the same flower, at the same time, without distortion.

Then I explain that TV, radio, heat, etc. are the same type of waves but we can't see them because our eyes aren't sensitive to their different physical properties. And, that TV, radio, etc., waves are everywhere there seems to be empty space between things and kids because their battery radio works anyplace (can't use the TV antennas anymore).

Kids are fascinated when I tell them that before it gets very light in the morning a few waves come from the Sun into a room through a crack and bounce off everything; then to their eyes such that they can dimly see most everything. You should hear them try to explain this to their parents when they ask to be wakened before dawn.

Before long these kids are explaining how gravity's effects are different than light's waves to their friends.

[heikki]

What do you see when you look at the sun?



:)

Simppel question, thank for that. I answer. My answer is not scientifically right or wrong, it is only my answer, how i thought that.

I see color-ball. Morning it is little bit orange, daylight yellow-white, and evening also little bit orange. When daylight is white clouds i see sun little more white. If is grey clouds, sun looks more grey than yellow.

If i take example. green-color plastic plate and look through that sun, sun looks like it is green.

That means that sun send some kind of color-matter-particles which are orange-yellow and also colorless-particles. When these particles hit the green-plastic plate, these particles take with it that green color-particles.

My thought is that air-level on the earth-surface has some amount blue color-particles, so that is the reasons why sky is blue on daylight. These color-particles stay on place at night because sun-light dont push or join these particles to motion.

Moon work same kind, orange first when rise up and nigh it is almost white. Moon own color is rock-sand-surface so it mirror(reflect) sun-sending particles to earth. Mirror-beam come against sun-beam.

If you take square-mirror. And reflect. Near distance reflection is square. But longer square start to form round. My thought is that these color-particles which fly from sun and reflect on mirror loose particles these square-corner area so easy that that is the reason why square is not square at longer distance.

How color-image flow through air without mixed?

I can see many things on the yard. Sun shining on the top. Sun-light particles fly fast to earth-surface. Hits everywhere, reflection all place. Still object (and object form and colors) i can see clear. I can see tree, ball, childs, houses, etc. I walk little bit and i see still clear all things. When comes night and sun dont sen light. I cannot see objects, but if i have light-source, then i can switch on it and i can see those objects where my light-source send light-particles. And still i dont see that light-particles which goes through air, and i dont see objects colors-particles, which also goes through air. But i see objects, without mixed.

If one room is many voice-wave-source or many different radio-wave source, or if water-surface has many wave-source, all these waves mixed together.

I dont know who speak and what.
I cannot separate radio-signal, it is noice-signal.
Water-wave is mixed many small waves-surface.

Why object image can flow without mixing?

I dont know.

:)

[Epsilon=One]

Why object image can flow without mixing?

I dont know.Your thoughts are refreshing. It is very good as to how much that you think about physical phenomena.

There is also much that is not quite as you think; however, most people never even think about such things.

There are many places on the internet where you can find good information.

You might want to peruse: "Light Waves and Color: Lesson 2: Color and Vision." (http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/Class/light/u12l2a.html) At first, read fast and skip what seems confusing. Later, you'll probably want to read more carefully.

Enjoy!!! It is unfortunate that there are not more persons that have your interest; and, your courage to seek answers.

To ask: "Why?"; and, to say: "I don't know." shows great wisdom.

[heikki]

Your thoughts are refreshing. It is very good as to how much that you think about physical phenomena.

There is also much that is not quite as you think; however, most people never even think about such things.

There are many places on the internet where you can find good information.

You might want to peruse: "Light Waves and Color: Lesson 2: Color and Vision." (http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/Class/light/u12l2a.html) At first, read fast and skip what seems confusing. Later, you'll probably want to read more carefully.

Enjoy!!! It is unfortunate that there are not more persons that have your interest; and, your courage to seek answers.

To ask: "Why?"; and, to say: "I don't know." shows great wisdom.

:)

I have read history of light-colors-wave theory. It is old theory, born actually 18-century. What i say? I say it is wrong theory to explain colors and light material existing, contruction, and behaving-motions.

By the path. Wave-theory is not even prooved scientifically and with measuring systems. It is only theory-level-idea. Common used, of cource. Why i is not proved? Because we dont have so high-frequencemeter or oscilloscope that we can measure those so high frequence waves.

But this is not my main question.

Question was and still is.

How image flow?

Of cource if we go deeper and invent new questions, then comes;

How object "made" this image?

What is the speed/travell-distance x(ms)/y(m) -curve, about that image-flowing process.

And what happend that image flowing process when light switch off?
Do object still send some kind of color-particle-flowing round of it?

Or where this image-"information" loss.

But, main wondering is.

How image flow?

Question are area of new physics.

:)

[OfficeShredder]

:)

Simppel question, thank for that. I answer. My answer is not scientifically right or wrong, it is only my answer, how i thought that.

I see color-ball. Morning it is little bit orange, daylight yellow-white, and evening also little bit orange. When daylight is white clouds i see sun little more white. If is grey clouds, sun looks more grey than yellow.

If i take example. green-color plastic plate and look through that sun, sun looks like it is green.

That means that sun send some kind of color-matter-particles which are orange-yellow and also colorless-particles. When these particles hit the green-plastic plate, these particles take with it that green color-particles.

And here's where the sky throws you off, When light hits water, it bends, right? Well, when light hits the atmosphere, it also bends. But the angle it bends at depends on the wavelength. So orange and red photons actually bend inwards, while blue photons bend outwards. That's why the sun looks orange or yellow, and the sky looks blue


How color-image flow through air without mixed?

I can see many things on the yard. Sun shining on the top. Sun-light particles fly fast to earth-surface. Hits everywhere, reflection all place. Still object (and object form and colors) i can see clear. I can see tree, ball, childs, houses, etc. I walk little bit and i see still clear all things. When comes night and sun dont sen light. I cannot see objects, but if i have light-source, then i can switch on it and i can see those objects where my light-source send light-particles. And still i dont see that light-particles which goes through air, and i dont see objects colors-particles, which also goes through air. But i see objects, without mixed.

How could you see "color particles" flying through the air? By definition, seeing something is these particles (properly called photons) striking your eye. So if they aren't hitting your eye, of course they're invisible. Even in your theory, you shouldn't be able to see them, whether or not they're colorless. And when you see those objects, what you're actually doing is seeing the photons coming from those objects. The reason they aren't mixed? Because we have skills :) Seriously though, photons are capable of passing through each other without affecting each other, so it makes sense that a photon flying through the air to our eyes would no be impeded

[heikki]

And here's where the sky throws you off, When light hits water, it bends, right? Well, when light hits the atmosphere, it also bends. But the angle it bends at depends on the wavelength. So orange and red photons actually bend inwards, while blue photons bend outwards. That's why the sun looks orange or yellow, and the sky looks blue

How could you see "color particles" flying through the air? By definition, seeing something is these particles (properly called photons) striking your eye. So if they aren't hitting your eye, of course they're invisible. Even in your theory, you shouldn't be able to see them, whether or not they're colorless. And when you see those objects, what you're actually doing is seeing the photons coming from those objects. The reason they aren't mixed? Because we have skills :) Seriously though, photons are capable of passing through each other without affecting each other, so it makes sense that a photon flying through the air to our eyes would no be impeded

:)

When light-photons flyes some amount of photons bends, some amount goes directly. That it the reason why light can goes through window or deep the clear water.

Atmosphere, air-surface layer, on the earth-ball, is many km high or thick. Daylight light-photons, which can come directly from sun or mirror-efect from moon at night, fly shortest path to earth-surface. Morning and evening this path through this air-surface layed to seekers eye is much longer.

What this means that how we see sun or moon color that time when sun or moon is near horizon?

It means several things.
- light-photon and color-photons speed is not same when it's hit to our eyes in morning, daylight, and evening
- light-particles has more distance to get more color-photons with it
- my thought is also that when we look air-surface layer i think that near earth-surface there is not so much that blue-material than upper level
- near the earth-surface layer is much more color-material which rise up example, trees, sand, etc.
- also near earth-surface this material (air + other particle material) is more weight, how i say, thick weigh, hmm. thickenss, density, and this means that when light-and color photons fly near surface long time it goes also through much high density material than when it comes directly from up


Because we can see forms, and forms colors. It is not possible that forms dont then keep that color-information. Light is of cource needet to see that color-information. But colors hmm. born place is in form. Therefore color-particles is in the forms. My thought is that image which comes to our eyes is constructed two things. Different colorparticles and colorless lightparticles(photons).


Last one i agree. These particles can fly passing each other.

But what keep form sendet color-image to it's form?

1. Light wide square angle.
2. Form image dont wide.

:)

[OfficeShredder]

heikki, it's not possible for me to explain this any further if you continue to insist that color and light are two distinct entities. I suggest this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour

[heikki]

heikki, it's not possible for me to explain this any further if you continue to insist that color and light are two distinct entities. I suggest this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour

:)

You dont need to explain. I understand what you says. Problem is not my and your. Problem is science-basic. Science theoryes has locked itself to that color-wave-theory. Also some kind of atheism-religion strife control our thoughts. I stand between those, look nature itself. Therefore all thought wich dont fit these old theoryes are incorrect, path or other. If you want to think new things, it need also that you must loose old theoryes. If you dont have courage to look deeper, thing other possibilityes, alternatives, go out of this material world also, then you cannot see new things. Go to pure emptyness, and come back, it is hard mind-path, and i dont recommend that to do, because then you cannot trust old theoryes, because you have seen this world much better, because our scient-theoryes and school education dont work so, because then your ideas dont fit in it. So, i dont speak any more so that you, reader, can read todays school books and theoryes full proof. I apology but i end this conversation of my side.

Good life forward.

:)

[Epsilon=One]

You dont need to explain. I understand what you says. Problem is not my and your. Problem is science-basic. Science theoryes has locked itself to that color-wave-theory. Also some kind of atheism-religion strife control our thoughts.What you say is quite true. However, this does not make your thoughts also all true.

If your thoughts rationalize your environment without your having any doubt, this is fine; continue thinking as you do.

However, I sense much doubt on your part; if so, continue to question where your thinking may be biased; then recheck it against IPSO (http://www.CQthus.com/PT/IPSO). If you are without doubt concerning your environment, you are either a fool or wise beyond all of us.

I stand between those, look nature itself. Therefore all thought wich dont fit these old theoryes are incorrect, path or other.You are looking in the right place with the correct attitude; though, I'm not sure that you are looking with all the tools that are available to you.

All theories are wrong someplace; that is why they are theories. However, most theories, even after they have been discarded, have some element of truth (possibly, even yours); the trick is to find the elements of truth from all theories and to reassemble these true elements into a theory that is more rational . . . and useful for answering the questions of how to best promote: Tolerance and Sustainability.

If you want to think new things, it need also that you must loose old theoryes. If you dont have courage to look deeper, thing other possibilityes, alternatives, go out of this material world also, then you cannot see new things.You seem to have mastered the hardest part of acquiring wisdom. Once the accepted is questioned, one can begin to acquire wisdom.

Go to pure emptyness, and come back, it is hard mind-path, and i dont recommend that to do, because then you cannot trust old theoryes, because you have seen this world much better, because our scient-theoryes and school education dont work so, because then your ideas dont fit in it.Yes. This is what Conceptualism (http://www.CQthus.com/PT/Conceptualism) and Pulsoid Theory (http://www.CQthus.com/PT/PT) do: "Go to pure emptyness, and come back, it is hard mind-path..." I don't believe that you have followed closely the "hard mind-path." Study Conceptualism and Pulsoid Theory until you find something that you disagree with. Then, ask questions until the differences are clearly understood.

So, i dont speak any more so that you, reader, can read todays school books and theoryes full proof. I apology but i end this conversation of my side.Don't stop speaking when time allows. If you believe in something, let others know. But, don't believe so firmly that the mind doesn't stay open. Always think of IPSO (http://www.CQthus.com/PT/IPSO); it does not preclude the individual or imagination; in fact it begins with "I" to emphasize what you already have.

Good life forward.Thanks. You seem better equipped than most for your trip.